Ray Rice disrupted the mores of society by hitting a woman, who happened to be his fiancé. By going against the social norms for a man to never his a woman, he had to suffer the consequences which resulted in him losing his job. Since he broke a more which results in severe punishment, he not only lost his job with the ravens but is suspended indefinitely from the NFL.
I am curious as to what everyones opinions are on this matter. Do you think the situation would have been handled differently if Ray Rice was a woman hitting "her" husband? Do you think the punishment was appropriate?
In my opinion, if Rice was a woman hitting "her" husband, nobody would look twice. There would be no consequences.
Why do you all think there is this notion in society that it is okay for women to hit men, but not the other way around? Do you think this is appropriate and fair, or is it unjust?
I kind of disagree with your premise. Domestic abuse and domestic violence are not causally linked to gender but there is correlation. The issue that exists in domestic violence cases is usually linked to disproportional strength between male and female partners. I would say that if the same violence was enacted female on male with the same magnitude or female on other female significant other that the response would be similar, assuming that the individual in question was as much in the public eye as Ray Rice.
Though it is not an empirically sourced article, this article shows some statistics that ~40% of domestic violence cases are actually enacted on male partners. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence
I see where you are coming from, because in the video his fiancé can clearly be seen hitting him before entering the elevator. She also comes at him while inside the elevator. That being said, she is not an employee of the NFL.
-Secret Agent I agree with Steph on the point of disproportionate strength. This man was clearly strong enough to knock her out with one punch. If he would have hit her temple, we would be discussing a manslaughter case. If the roles were reversed, say a female bodybuilder and an average-sized man were married and she knocked him out, I feel that the bodybuilding community would support the male (or at least one would hope) I appreciate the fact that the NFL took a stance against physical/spousal abuse. I would hope that they would take a similar action if their employee were a female. There currently are not any female NFL players, so to infer that it was gender biased, in this particular instance, may be a stretch.
I think what you have said is correct. Women are allowed to get away with hitting men but once a man hit a women its so bad. Who knows what she did to tempt him to hit her.
Also i feel the NFL was wrong for covering all the details up and it has but them in a tough situation with the media and the views of people. If TMZ didn't come out with the video everything would have been ok.
I feel that the severity of the situation potentially would've been different if Ray Rice's spouse had hit him instead, but the overall implications would've remained the same. While there are a smaller number of domestic violence cases involving women as the assaulter, There has also been an increase in prosecuting those individuals as well. I do not think there is an overall "notion" that it is OK for women to hit men, and that in recent years, domestic violence as a whole has been viewed in a greater negative context.
I think that in this case, Ray Rice deserved the consequences he now has to face because of his cruel and completely unnecessary actions. I think that the majority of the time, public figures,celebrities, and athletes often get away with being a part of illegal or unjust actions without such punishments. Everyone deserves the consequences of their actions though, whether one is famous or not. I think the NFL has to hold strong to their punishments for all players because so many average people tend to look up to professional athletes and often mimic their actions. I just hope that no similar actions take place in the future because we need to get away from such domestic violence cases - Chelsea Pudimott
I don't believe that fame is the only factor that allows for public figures, celebrities, and athletes to get away with illegal activities. I believe that it has more to do with "affluenza" which indicates that conflict theory (subcultural theory of deviance) has an impact on the responses to crimes and social deviance. People with money (and influence) will always be able to bend the laws to permit illegal behaviors. If an average man was video taped beating his fiancee, he would not just have the equivalent of a 2 day suspension. With conflict theory, we need to hope that we - the minority - can eventually topple this practice and ensure equality.
I am very surprised that the NFL or the Baltimore Ravens didn't take this kind of action against Ray Rice even before the video had been released. Granted, the NFL did suspend Rice for 2 games when he was charged for domestic violence earlier in the summer at the time of the incident, but why ban him now just because video evidence of his actions just surfaces? Similar incidents have occurred recently where NFL players are charged with crimes, such as marijuana possession, and are able to avoid any jail time or serious judicial punishment because they are able to post bail. They are employees of the NFL, a very lucrative career, so these bails are easily surmountable. The NFL then should take responsibility of its employees and follow up with a suitable punishment immediately. They tend to give out lesser punishments such as 2 or 4 day suspensions, which doesn't seemingly have a great enough impact on these now former criminals' actions to deter them from becoming repeat offenders. Unfortunately, more often than not these players nevertheless become repeat offenders. I believe it is time for the NFL to reassess the manner in which they treat those players that have been officially charged and convicted of crimes in a court of law and not wait for further physical evidence that surfaces after the fact.
It doesn't surprise me. The NFL didn't hire these people because of their integrity or moral values. They hired them to play football. As long as the players can do their job well and cooperate with the team, there is no reason for any team to take action. The only reason the NFL fired Ray Rice was because mass media pressured them to do so, and the NFL doesn't want to seem apathetic towards domestic abuse; if the video didn't become viral, Rice would still be playing.
I don't know why people where shocked that the NFL took punitive action only when one of its employees was catapulted in the spotlight due to his abhorrent actions. Not only was Rice in the spotlight but the NFL brand was inevitably in the spotlight as well. Kevin mentioned how the NFL first and foremost is a business intent on making a profit. Image is everything. If the NFL brand is tarnished, then every sponsor associated with that brand is negatively affected. Rice as a liability must be handled accordingly not to mar the NFL brand.
I watched the video for the first time yesterday, thinking that this had happened recently, and was shocked to find out that it happened way back in February. I was even more astonished to find out back when it happened, she was Rice's fiance and is now his wife! That just blows my mind. To think that the NFL didn't take a stance against Rice's actions when they first found out about it, without the video, is beyond me. If there is proof of abuse, which there was on his now wife's body, because there was visible proof, then something should have been done about it a long time ago and he should have been suspended back in February. I don't understand why they're banning him just now, as soon as the video was released. He was charged earlier in the summer but why did it have to come down to a video, until something major was done. Even in that video, it talked of a current Dallas Cowboys player killing his teammate under the influence. Is he permanently in jail for that? I don't care if you're in a multi-million dollar career; a crime is a crime and no matter who you are, you should be charged just as severely as an average joe off the street. I hope the NFL reconsiders how they handle their players who get charged with certain crimes, because if they wait, as with this whole thing, it will only get worse, which puts a bad name to certain teams and the NFL as a whole.
Ray came out and apologized, he admitted striking her and he was handed a punishment of a 2 week suspension. So now the NFL sees this video and now they are making him and his fiancé relive this whole situation over again. They should have suspended him for the entire season, and now sources are saying Roger Goodell saw the video months ago and never took action, so now the extra punishments such as being released from the Ravens and losing multiple endorsements could've all been prevented months ago if Roger Goodell made the right decision.
I believe that Ray Rice will lose a lot of fans. There are men and women in this country that have dealt with domestic abuse in some type of way. For his fiancé to let everyone know that it was "her fault," I believe that most people will not believe her. When people are in abusive relationships, they can be in manipulative situations or they just simply do not want the situation to turn into something bigger than what it is when it is already big. I also believe that Rice will be playing again, at some point. That will affect the whole team and the NFL. I don't think that he should come back. He committed a crime, just as much as a DUI and murder. While reading the article, I found it funny how it ended with some of his accomplishments as a NFL player. I don't think people care about that, at least I don't.
Ray Rice broke a huge social norm by beating his fiance and that will now have an enormous affect on both his career and life. The punishment was not as severe before, but now that the video of the incident has surfaced he will lose a lot of fans and potentially his career. I believe it is a little unfair that his punishment is being changed after he has already been punished for the incident, but i suppose there was no way for people to know how severe the incident was before the video came out.
Ray Rice is absolutely wrong about how he handled his business. Domestic violence is one of the underlying issues that our country is facing because obviously its really hard to expose if its happening or not. Roger Goddell and the Ravens organization both made the right decision with their punishments and I stand by them. I have a few questions that go against what the norm. 1. If Rice and his fiancee are ok with what happened and they plan to "work" on the issue together, then why should he be prevented from his profession, the way he supports his family? 2. If your an NFL owner where results are measured with on the field actions, would you sign Ray Rice? 3. Would you sign Ray Rice if he was still playing and you are a fantasy football team owner? 4. Does Ray Rice deserve a second chance and have his suspension lifted? Just some food for thought..
I did not expect Ray Rice do something like this. Men should never hit a woman especially their own fiancé. This is going affect his football career and life, his fans will turn against him. I'm wondering why the NFL didn't take action in February when this happened instead of finding out now. Even though he apologized, it's not going to change anything because everybody in the NFL and the Ravens fans are not going forget this situation.
I am from Baltimore and a huge Raven's fan but that absolutely does not excuse Ray Rice's actions. I do not believe at any point is it ok to hit a woman. I think his punishment was well deserved even if he did not get that punishment at first. Ray Rice was man enough to knock his finance cold then he should be man enough to take any consequence that comes with it. Being in the NFL is a privilege and there are high standards that come with that job. Ray Rice is a talented player but at no means does that give him the right to hit women.
Ray made a terrible decision. He hit a woman. That is not socially acceptable in today's society. This whole story has overwhelmed our entertainment industry and shows how much the NFL and and popular culture dominate the lives of a large portion of our country's citizens. Sociology is the study of human behavior and this situation shows how the behavior of one individual influenced the behavior of millions.
Ryan Muscatella The fact that it took this long for Ray Rice to be indefinitely suspended from the NFL is actually quite entertaining. He knew, the league knew, everyone who followed his story knew that he beat his fiancé, but the league, and most importantly the commissioner did not want the Ravens or the NFL to suffer by losing such a great player. Therefore, they only suspended him for two games even though players caught smoking marijuana were suspended for four games and possibly more. What does this prove? You can beat up your family but you better not smoke a plant. This entire message the NFL is now coming across is a little too late and it sickens me to think that he almost was going to get off easy. People in today's society interact differently, however, the fact that Ray Rice did this and the video was only released recently shows how someone must have paid a ton of money to receive that video. This helps show how our era is willing to pay for something in order to destroy someone else's career. Overall, what Ray Rice did was wrong, everyone knows that, but it should not have taken this long for people to realize that.
Christina Asare Better late than never. Even though it took them some time it is good that the NFL has finally come to their senses and given him a fitting punishment. Their actions finally show that they don't condone domestic violence but it is sad that it took a video for them to take action, even though they already knew what took place.
It is quite enthralling to think about how many sports players, actors, and other famous people apologize after being caught whether it is domestic abuse or adultery. It maybe that it is more socially acceptable to apologize to everyone even when one does not actually mean it. Apparently, Ray Rice apologized for the "situation," he was in rather than apologizing for his actions. He violated a type of norm, a “more." In doing so, he was punished by the NFL. Any team that would sign Ray Rice would probably suffer financially since society believes rightly that it is unacceptable to put a man who committed domestic violence on a team. Furthermore, some argue that his wife shouldn't have hit him first. If one looks at the video closely, they can see that she did not hit him severely and she seemed to hit him once. After her first hit, she started to approach him, and she had her hands down. Nonetheless, when her fiancé saw her approaching him, he strikes her severely and continuously into unconsciousness. This is not acceptable in any stance. In addition, the head coach John Harbaugh was the only person who spoke to the press about the occurrence and this doesn’t make sense because the team is an organization and there are other people above him like the president of team who should have also been involved in attaining the video earlier. In Rice’s following appearances in which he spoke about the video, he apologized for his actions but words are not actions. No one knows what happens behind closed doors, he may or may not have brought his actions in the video to his home. The unpredictability of that is truly gruesome to think about.
I think it's interesting to see how our society tends to view things in comparison to each other constantly. While Ray Rice's actions had no bearing on his skill and ability to play football, it affected his career and his professional life. While I do completely stand by the NFL's decision to remove him from the team, I think it is interesting and remarkable that people still emphasize ethics before anything else. It shows that the Ravens not only want a person who is skilled at football but also a person with a good overall character and wouldn't make such bad decisions. I do think he deserved his punishment and while his wife may have forgiven him, he still in a way disrespected all women and condoning that wouldn't be ethical for the NFL or the Ravens. I'm also surprised that his wife didn't speak more against his actions, because while it is a sensitive time for her family and there is a lot of bad press against him, I personally thought as a victim she would be a positive female voice who could be a role model for women who have been abused. -Lakshmi Subramanian
The way the NFL handled the situation is at least questionable. First, they only suspended Rice for two games after it was already obvious what he did. (I.e. the video of him carrying his wife out of the elevator). Also, there is a reasonable reason to think the NFL saw the actual video of Rice punching his wife before. Knowing this, it is unbelievable that the NFL let Ray Rice have is own press conference. Even though it took the NFL a lot of time to make a decision, the punishment fits the crime Rice committed. In my opinion a celebrity or sportsman, like Ray Rice, has to be a positive role model for society. If celebrities or sportsman are not a role model for society, society has to see the role models get punished, so they understand committing crime is not normal because a celebrity committed it.
Bryce Young It's interesting to see that only after the video of Ray Rice hitting his wife was released, that the NFL and the Raven's organization took action to discipline him. Both the NFL and Raven's organization knew exactly what the tap held on it without even having to see the video. Why did it take almost seven months to come to a decision to not only terminate his job within the Baltimore organization, but suspend him indefinitely from the NFL?
Before a couple weeks ago, Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice was to serve a 2-game suspension for domestic abuse, for hitting his wife. However it took a video being released several months after the incident occurred to open the NFL and Ravens organization's eyes and give Ray Rice proper punishment by terminating his contract. It simply appalls me that it took a video to change this decision and that the NFL didn't make the call immediately at the thought of a player hitting his wife. The evidence was there, and no real/proper action was taken until the video was released not long ago. What really sets me off is when Ravens head coach John Harbaugh says that the video "changed things." This angers me because proper punishment should have been given to Rice after the original story was released and the evidence was there, not after the actual video of the instance was revealed. When you have players getting suspended a mere 2 games for domestic abuse and other players missing an entire season for smoking marijuana, the priorities of Roger Goodell and the NFL come into question. When it comes down to it, the story and evidence of Rice performing domestic abuse should have been enough to properly punish him through long-term suspension or contract termination.
I agree with the previous post. It is upsetting that it takes actually seeing a man knock out his wife against an elevator wall to do the right thing. Prior to this video being released, we saw the video of him dragging his unconscious fiance out of the elevator. What did the NFL think happened in the elevator? It could not have been anything less than exactly what is was, so why did they wait so long to make the right call and suspend Rice indefinitely. What other possible action could have happened in the elevator to leave her in such a state that she had to be dragged out? I think the way this was handled reaffirms the fact that the priorities of the NFL are absolutely in the wrong place and someone should pay for the egregious mistake, namely NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell.
This situation doesn't just apply to the NFL. Celebrities have been able to get out of punishments and slide by laws as much as they have wanted to. Think about it, a new celebrity has a DUI almost every week and instead of being put in jail when they could have killed people with their actions (just like Ray Rice), they seem to get away with a "warning" every time. This is a bigger problem than just the NFL. Yes Rice beat his fiancé and that is domestic violence but as the public I think we need to focus more on the bigger picture that celebrities think they are invincible because they are often not punished enough or simply don't care about repercussions of their actions.
With regards to the idea that maybe the situation would have been handled differently if Ray Rice's fiancé was abusive to him, I thought I would share this article.
I think it is important to recognize that domestic violence is not just a woman's issue, and that it is equally horrifying regardless of what gender commits the abuse.
Although Ray Rice committed an almost unforgivable and disgusting act, I think that he and his wife should be able to settle this incident in private, through the legal system. I believe that any man who domestically abuses a female should have to face serious consequences legally; however, I'm not sure if the NFL and the Baltimore Ravens need to be so involved in private affairs. The NFL took a horrible approach when initially suspending Rice for 2 games. But, there is no "correct punishment". To suspend a man indefinitely from his profession is a hefty punishment, and I think the NFL and the Ravens should have suspended him at least for this whole season and then made a better informed decision in 2015.
Although I do completely agree that domestic violence is an ungrateful act and that Ray Rice should be punished regardless if he is a professional athlete or not, I believe that the NFL is doing a terrible job trying to resolve this issue. They knew from before the full tape came out that it was a domestic violence charge, so why when the full video came out that they completely change his sentence of being suspended indefinitely. I think that this has to deal more with celebrities and professional athletes thinking that they get do what ever they want and get away with it. The NFL and all other leagues and police should consider celebrities and athletes they same as everyone else in this world because they are.
Footage of Ray Rice physically hiting his wife resulted in Rice losing his position in the NFL from the Baltimore Ravens. I agree and disagree with the consequences faced by the altercation on Rice's behalf. The NFL should allow for the altercation to be handled in private matters by the law, but take into consideration, would the Baltimore Ravens want a man known for domestic violence to represent the team? Celebrities are seen to be able to abide by different laws and not fully face consequences of their actions.
I'll start off by saying that Domestic Violence is wrong. I firmly believe nobody in a relationship should physically harm one another. However, the public cannot judge a man on his actions against his fiance by just watching one video. Relationships are deep and complex. No one knows the full story behind the two and how their relationship was up until that point. For me to judge Ray Rice would be a shame because I don't know how it feels to be a pro football player with all that publicity. Therefore, I cannot say his fiance did or did not deserve the beating.
It is very interesting to me hearing of the different considerations of punishment that should be implemented on Ray Rice after this video. From a three year consequence, to a 6 game probation, Ray Rice's punishment has been under thought. Despite Ray Rice's fame and major contributions to the NFL, society needs to maintain the overall concept that Ray Rice, is too, a human being. Clearly Ray Rice and his partner have had issues to lead up to such a terrible recording. There is so much more to domestic violence than the violence itself. In a situation as unfortunate as this one, the image society has on Ray Rice will forever be skewed.
Domestic violence towards anyone is shameful and should not be accepted at all in society. But when anyone gets caught with domestic violence the should be punished the same as everyone else. But also the mater should be handled privately and not necessarily affect their personal jobs, because we will never truley understand the underlining facts of why this incidence occurred.
I think that the idea of everyone being held accountable in the same way for their actions is a nice one, but unrealistic. I believe that when someone becomes a public figure, they are accepting that they are held at a higher standard for their actions. If celebrities expect the public to support and applaud them for every good thing they do, they better expect that the public will shame them and disapprove of them if they do something very bad. What Ray Rice did was very bad and he deserves to lose his job. I think that allowing Ray Rice to continue on the team sends a really bad message to America. It sends the message "It's okay to participate in domestic abuse, because everyone will eventually forget because you're so good at other things". I think that fans of Ray Rice will forgive him once he does another sports accomplishment
I believe that Ray Rice was not right or justified in hitting his fiancee. While I believe that domestic violence is wrong, the media and the public have condemned Ray Rice completely. As he is a role model to many people and a person of great fame, it is understandable that he should be aware of his actions in public and out of it. However, many are judging him without a complete understanding of his situation and the depth of his relationship with his fiancee. There may be hidden sides to this incident that we do not know. So, I think that it is unfair to judge him so critically, especially since he is human. Nobody is perfect, and everybody makes mistakes. -Simon Chang
Ray Rice admitted to hitting his finance when the issue was first presented to the NFl. I feel as though a video should not have changed the punishment. The NFL was definitely aware of what happened but now that the public saw the video, they were forced to inflict a more harsh punishment. The Ravens dropping Rice, in my opinion, was not the right thing to do. They were made aware of what happened in the first place, they shouldn't change their punishments due to public opinion. -Keegan O'Connor
I think it's ridiculous that Rice wasn't banned until the video actually came out. He was in a bit of trouble with the NFL when he was charged for domestic violence, but until the release of the video of him hitting his former fiancee in the elevator he wasn't banned from the game. I think that the NFL can get away with a lot of these small crimes because football is such an American sport and although it isn't a necessary job, being a good football player in the NFL is not a job that is so easily replaceable or attainable. I think the NFL isn't too worried about the crimes until it looks bad on their part as a com pay. Until the video was released the NFL wasn't under too much spotlight for continuing to play Rice, but one society saw what Rice had done on video, then it looked bad on the NFL's part to continue to play him.
There are things I understand and don't understand about this situation. First of all, I believe that everyone, athlete or not, should suffer from the same punishment for all crimes. I understand why the Ravens released Ray Rice. The Ravens didn't want to give the impression that they support domestic violence, since so many people were criticizing Rice at the time. This was a move to save their reputation and keep their business safe. I don't understand how seeing the video can make things "a little bit different." The act is still the same. This makes me wonder if the John Harbaugh and Ravens even care that Rice attacked his fiance, or if they were just afraid of the public disapproval. -Brandon Chambers
The interesting aspect of the story is not what lead the man to hit his fiancé, but rather how most people treated it like no big deal. Yes, there were consequences to the actions of the player, but they were all very minor; almost as if no one cared, but rather felt obligated to do something. This shows that people do not understand how serious this problem (or isolated event) is, and also think it’s a momentary slip up mistake. This changed, however, when people saw what actually happened. Then, once the vicious hit was seen, people agreed that it was much worse and a lot less inexcusable. The moral of this: if we want people to act, we must make sure they understand the situation. -Matthew Glazer
This video shocked me when I first came across it. Just thinking about the size difference between the two and how strong of a hit Rice must have thrown disturbs me. A man should never hit a woman. Moreover, Ray Rice went against societal norms when he hit his fiancé. By doing so, he had to face the ramifications of the NFL which resulted in him losing his NFL position as well as the criticism from all of his fans and viewers across the nation. After being "suspended indefinitely from the NFL," Rice appealed and won his case in court and has since been reinstated in the NFL. This disturbs me the most because it sends the wrong message to people out there. I believe that his punishment was taken away, leaving him be as if there was never any punishment to begin with. That is not okay, especially when trying to reinforce societal norms.
I think that this article shows the importance of media and how media can really affect the public opinion. It seemed that either none of the people on the NFL saw the video or chose to ignore it until TMZ broadcasted the video for everyone to see. This makes it seem that the actions itself were not as severe or socially condemned until it become known to more people. This also made it seem that only after more people responded to it and criticized the actions that the NFL finally made their statements and final decisions.
I think the article highlights how professional athletes can be treated as almost above the law because of their physical and athletic prowess and how it takes something truly appalling, such as a large muscular man disrupting a societal norm (you shouldn't hit a woman) by striking his wife, to incite any sort of social change. I think this will highlight a new era of athletes being watched even more diligently and more will be punished for their outlandish behavior. This can be seen in the case with Adrian Peterson and how he was brought up on charges of child abuse for striking his son.
I think that the reason the NFL reacted the way that they did is because of all the negative attention they received from the media and fans. If this video would not have gotten all the negative feedback that it did/no one would have seen it, then i'm sure his punishment would have been less severe. This goes to show how much power the media can have. A man let alone a big, strong football player should not be hitting a woman let alone his fiancee. I think the punishment was suiting. Hopefully this changes the mindset the athletes/famous people are above the law. Hopefully they become more conscious of their actions -Tita
First of all, this is battery. A person making unwanted contact with someone would be defined as battery. The fact that these two people were in a relationship makes it domestic violence and abuse. Now if we add in the fact that a “5-foot, 8-inch, 220 pound athlete’ punched a woman, knocking her unconscious, that just makes it outrageous. What makes it even more outrageous is the fact the NFL team saw it as a minor offense. Ray Rice’s punishment was even less than those who abused drugs instead of people. Hands down if someone is beating up someone else who is powerless against them, it should be considered a serious offense and the person should receive the appropriate consequences. It is not okay for the team to say ‘It’s ok he knocked his fiancé unconscious, but I think he is still a respectable man’. This is what is perpetuating the glory and idea that celebrities and athletes are above the law. It took two videos for the team to drop him, whereas they should have taken the action when they saw that he was dragging her out of the elevator unconscious.
The NFL, in my opinion, must take a defiant stand against domestic violence after this Ray Rice incident. It is the NFL’s greatest responsibility to make sure that all fans understand that just a celebrity does something it does not mean that that something is okay to do. This issue extends far beyond the gridiron, the locker-room, individual teams, and the NFL. This is a cultural issue that must be addressed from the top down and must be acted against in a way that will clearly demonstrate the illegality of domestic violence. This is called social responsibility, and if the authorities crack down on it, according to sociological happening, the masses will follow and accept the truth of domestic violence as unacceptable. -- Max Samuels
I think this is a perfect example to demonstrate how Freud's model of the psyche comes into play in Sociology. Although internally the id, ego, and superego are not entirely consciously controlled, the superego is something that we are aware of regardless of if we are familiar with his model. Ray Rice ignored the ego internally and his desire to right what he felt was wrong with physical violence filled the id with what it is- a way to describe certain actions, thoughts, or feelings with instinct. Apparently now he has admitted fault and things have changed since the release of this video meaning that the morals he has in the superego were let out and punishment is a little different than society, as determined by norms, would think they would be. Kenny P
It's very disappointing how the NFL handled the Ray Rice case. In my opinion, the NFL didn't have a set idea of what punishment was deemed proper for Ray Rice who was charged for domestic violence. Having Ray Rice fired to being only suspended for 2 games. For basic social norms, men do not physically abuse women. It is wrong to even consider no matter how angry that individual is feeling. The comments from other NFL players responded with disappointment as well and I question if the NFL is indirectly helping Ray Rice to still be part of the league for money or other reasons. This proves that individuals who have money and power are able to manipulate social norms to make it seem that punishments from committing social crimes can be avoided easily.
I think that Ray Rice deserved the punishment he received. Celebrities, professional athletes, and public figures often get lesser sentences when they commit illegal or unlawful actions. Regardless of a man hitting a women, domestic violence and intimate partner violence is a terrible act. No one has the right to abuse another human. By Ray Rice hitting his fiancé in the face and knocking her unconscious, he should receive a severe punishment due to breaking the mores of society. It is ridiculous that it took the NFL this long to punish players who commit domestic violence or child abuse and only after the video was released to the public. They need to be an example to society and condone such behavior. -Foofie
It was a horrible thing that Ray Rice did and he deserved his punishment but I think that it is interesting that although the fiance was obviously fighting and egging him on she is seen as the victim and is not punished as well. I realize that there is a huge size difference between them and the fact that Ray Rice dragged her from the building unconscious makes his situation much worse than hers but I feel like this is another way of saying that woman are weak and therefore need to be treated differently then men. If this was two men fighting each other then they would both be seen as at fault for what happened instead of just the one person.
Of course, like everyone has said, this is a terrible thing that Ray Rice has done. He definitely deserved to be suspended from the league and whatever the "diversional programs" that the law is making him do, I hope they really fit the crime, but this is not what I am writing about. I find it very strange that although the initial police report that was filed about this case blatantly saying that Rice and punched her in the face, it was only until the video came out that this case made the national headlines. Following the leak of this video, this case not only made the national headlines, but it prompted a very large anti-domestic violence movement. Why it was only until after the video leaked that this case blew up, I think, is a very sociological question. Is it because the people didn't trust the police report? Is it because the police report was not enough to convince people? Or it because the video itself evokes a lot very strong, bad emotions that only after these emotions are felt, will people react. I'm sure it is a combination of all three but mostly the emotion part. People are very influenced by emotion and a lot of times it is their leverage to act. These people acted in the right way of course, but I just think its strange that a video of the act had to come out before people really reacted.
Whether or not this is in his normal character, what Ray Rice did was horrifically wrong. It went against our social norms of not abusing the people you love. Abuse like this happens every day all over the world, so it's understandable that it didn't make the headlines until after the video was posted; people didn't realize just how bad it was until they could see the intensity of it. Abuse, let alone knocking someone unconscious, is not okay. This brought to light a bigger issue than Rice's personal situation, which is domestic abuse in America. Violence, whether a man hitting his woman or a woman hitting her man, is not okay and should not be taken lightly. This situation caused an anti-domestic violence movement, and I hope this movement continues to move forward so that we can diminish domestic violence as much as possible.
It’s funny how NFL essentially supported and defended Ray Rice, but after the video of him committing violence against his fiancé leaked, they immediately turned their back on him. The fact that Ray Rice physically abuses his fiancé does not just happen once. Earlier, there have been evidence of this incident, yet the press, and especially his colleagues, quickly forgive him by saying “he’s not that type of guy” or that he’s trying to amend for his mistakes. What Ray Rice has done is wrong in all ways, but how NFL reacts to his actions should also be condemned.
I think it is appalling that the Ravens team's first reaction to hearing that Ray Rice was domestically abusive towards his partner was to be fully supportive of him. Hearing high up people regard him with respect and be proud of him is not only sad, but a horrible representation to all of America of the NFL. I understand that now they have parted ways with Rice, but that was only after video evidence of the assault came out. They should have parted ways with him immediately after they found out about the assault. The team and NFL are not only condemning illegal actions, but it is a horrible portrayal towards all women.
This situation has been something to follow over the past couple of months. While I one hundred percent do not agree with Rice’s horrific actions and think he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law for that, I think the way the situation has played out and been handled the past couple of months is wrong. The matter was being investigated and handled by the Atlantic County Prosecutors Office. I understand that this is considered to be high profile and something that would attract media attention however I don’t think it was the Raven’s responsibility to “punish” him before the NFL was. Since this is how it played out, I think it is wrong that he was punished by the Ravens and then the NFL attempted to do the same. Domestic violence and assault is a serious matter and the offender, female or male, should be held fully accountable by the law, which is something the ACPO did do. Yes the NFL tries to uphold moral standards and values and enforce these, but the Ravens should have not taken matters into their own hands. It should have been the NFL’s decision as the actor for the entire league. I think that people thought it was necessary for the Ravens to take action because it appeared that no one was, and this was done in order to save their appearance, but action was being taken by ACPO and he was being held accountable at the justice level. That should have been addressed more because it could have separated the Ravens from an scrutiny as it is not their responsibility to punish but rather it is first and foremost the court systems, then the NFL’s in order to uphold their standards.
I find it shocking that the head coach Harbaugh completely supported Ray Rice after the domestic dispute with his fiancé. It is unacceptable for a male to step out of his boundaries and outside of the social norms of male behavior towards females. While some more disappointed with his actions than others, it is important to note how some believe that his punishment was not fitting the crime. I personally believe that domestic violence is a serious issue, and when I saw the video myself, I was completely shocked and sick to my stomach. The idea of a man knocking his fiancé unconscious with one blow is unbelievable.
“The Ray Rice domestic violence case against his wife earlier this year shook the country and put a giant spotlight on the National Football League. Commissioner Roger Goodell was more specifically the target as his lack of proper action was heavily scrutinized while the general public called for stricter action. Rice did admit to his faults in a professional and mature manner, however. But, there have been other offenses against the football player including an aggravated assault charge in late March. So at what point should the league take action and start keeping an eye on repeat offenders of the law? And if done so could an event such as this been prevented by taking earlier precaution?”
8) Domestic violence occurs all the time, and when a major celebrity or face in society commits violence, it is projected for all the world to see. If this incident had not been video taped and released to the public, it is very likely that Ray Rice would never have been caught or reprimanded, possibly may have never apologized to his wife, and the violence could still be occurring. I believe this is an example of how people react to being in the lime light and under pressure of society- because it is against societal morals to hit a woman, Ray Rice was/ is looked down upon greatly, and felt the pressure to correct that and gain back some respect. -Sarah Wigmore
I found it very disturbing as part of this society that it took the video surfacing for people to make a big deal out of this particular situation. Everyone already had access to being able to see him drag his fiance (who was clearly unconscious) out of the elevator. It was public that he beat her and left her unconscious but I'm not sure why it took the actual video of him doing it for him to be actually suspended, when clearly the facts of the case were there all along? -Moose
I was really shocked at how Raven just prohibited him for 2 games and there was not organizations suing him. As a celebrity in America, he has set a really bad example for the whole country. The other part I don’t get is that his wife (fiancée at that time) would testify for him even though he hurt her with violence. What made me worried is that those athletes, physically strong and though, could do anything to their family (including Simpson, who killed his wife but somehow managed to get out from the justice system), and somehow not got punished and could go on what they’ve done. It is just not fair, and certainly a bad example for the society. Li
After reading this article about what happened with Ray Rice from a couple months ago, I find it disturbing about the tone of the article presented. It did not seem to comment on Rice's actions at all, only present quotes of others. The beginning of the article brings quotes from those who did not bash him strongly such as his coach and the NFL, while the end of the article brings quotes/tweets from other players in the league expressing utter disgust in the video and actions of the NFL brought on Rice. I was most shocked by his wife's statement about it being her fault, and the fact that she still married him after this happened. There is obviously something more to this situation than just what the public knows between the two of them that seems to be extremely discomforting.
This event is only one of the most recent examples of NFL players that have abused their position. In the U.S. we place athletes on a pedestal and they then believe they can get away with whatever they want. By not following through with Rices punishment we have only validated their wrong doing. To stop these crimes committed we must prosecute athletes like the rest of the population.
Interesting post! I couldn't help but relate your post to our lecture on inequality in the United States. Athletes fall under the category of positions that are not essential but the role is difficult to replace. I think that part of the reason athletes are placed on a high pedestal is because their position is difficult to replace. Therefore, this contributes to inequality because others in different positions may not be placed on the same pedestal if they were in the same situation. What are your thoughts?
I think this video and article really makes it clear that Ray Rice’s case was mishandled, and not fairly done. More than being upset with the NFL claiming that they hadn’t seen the second video, and only suspending him for two games at first, I’m more worried with how the legal side of this was handled. Even though he is a famous athlete- the rule of law should definitely still apply to him, and the prosecutor allowing him to go through with a pretrial diversionary program, instead of facing more severe charges. A different (non-athlete) man would have been charged more harshly, and faced more legal consequences since this is a serious case of domestic abuse. The sheer volume of negative reactions from the public and other celebrities should point out that this is a serious and severe case of domestic abuse- and should therefore its case should be treated like one. I know that in the past, many celebrities have gotten off easy, avoiding jail time for other crimes (usually drug, alcohol related) but abuse is something that I think should be regarded on a whole new level. Hopefully, as the NFL begins changing its policies, and they realize that the public will be watching them closely from now on- the legal system will also stop giving preferential treatment for crimes like domestic abuse.
This article shows how the NFL did not initially take the domestic violence case as seriously at first. They wanted to give Ray Rice the benefit of the doubt and chose not to penalize him as much because they thought their uncertainty justified their lack of action. However, once the final video was released it shocked the world including the NFL and Ravens. After the release of the second video, there was no doubt that Ray Rice responsible for punching his wife unconscious. The NLF and Ravens had no choice but to fire Ray Rice immediately; not because it was the right thing to do but because it was socially expected of them. If they had really cared about the well being of Janay Palmer they would have taken action sooner when they had the chance.
I believe that the NFL needs to have stricter regulations on the actions of its athletes. Although, stories such as Ray Rice's are publicized because he is a celebrity does not discount the domestic violence. These NFL athletes are models of many young children. I do not think that professional athletes should be able to act as they please just because they are making millions of dollars.
I was surprised that when the NFL first found out about the situation through the first video, they did no further investigation of what happened. I believe that Ray Rice did deserve the punishment he received because he should have known that a man of his size and stature could certainly do damage to a smaller person. However, I don't think that he is solely to blame in this situation. His then fiancé did hit him as well too. Both parties are at fault in my opinion.
At the time of this comment I believe it's worth noting that Ray Rice's appeal to be allowed to play in the NFL has been granted. While his actions were morally wrong and terrible I do not agree that his punishment was severe enough. At the end of the day he will likely still be able to play football and suffer no criminal consequences for what I deem to be a criminal act.
What Ray Rice did was wrong and it is not fair for him to not get penalized. The NFL should have strictly punished him for what he did because that was domestic abuse. Just because he is a well known athlete he can get special treatment and can get away with what he did. It is an abuse of power because he is someone who makes millions of dollars playing football and people need him to always be there. It is just sad that the woman will probably not get any justice.
Domestic abuse is one of the biggest gender issues facing our society today. It seems like every male argues against domestic violence but it is still such a prevalent issue. The fact that he originally only received a two game suspension for his actions tells us how lightly the NFL and other areas of society take the issue. It was only after the elevator video surfaced that Rice was banned indefinitely. The NFL knew the entire situation beforehand but it took the video to show them how much of an atrocity it was. -- Drew Brees
Ray Rice disrupted the mores of society by hitting a woman, who happened to be his fiancé. By going against the social norms for a man to never his a woman, he had to suffer the consequences which resulted in him losing his job. Since he broke a more which results in severe punishment, he not only lost his job with the ravens but is suspended indefinitely from the NFL.
ReplyDeleteAlanna Rothman (sec 0601):
ReplyDeleteI am curious as to what everyones opinions are on this matter. Do you think the situation would have been handled differently if Ray Rice was a woman hitting "her" husband? Do you think the punishment was appropriate?
In my opinion, if Rice was a woman hitting "her" husband, nobody would look twice. There would be no consequences.
Why do you all think there is this notion in society that it is okay for women to hit men, but not the other way around? Do you think this is appropriate and fair, or is it unjust?
I kind of disagree with your premise. Domestic abuse and domestic violence are not causally linked to gender but there is correlation. The issue that exists in domestic violence cases is usually linked to disproportional strength between male and female partners. I would say that if the same violence was enacted female on male with the same magnitude or female on other female significant other that the response would be similar, assuming that the individual in question was as much in the public eye as Ray Rice.
DeleteThough it is not an empirically sourced article, this article shows some statistics that ~40% of domestic violence cases are actually enacted on male partners. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence
I see where you are coming from, because in the video his fiancé can clearly be seen hitting him before entering the elevator. She also comes at him while inside the elevator. That being said, she is not an employee of the NFL.
Delete-Secret Agent
I agree with Steph on the point of disproportionate strength. This man was clearly strong enough to knock her out with one punch. If he would have hit her temple, we would be discussing a manslaughter case. If the roles were reversed, say a female bodybuilder and an average-sized man were married and she knocked him out, I feel that the bodybuilding community would support the male (or at least one would hope)
I appreciate the fact that the NFL took a stance against physical/spousal abuse. I would hope that they would take a similar action if their employee were a female. There currently are not any female NFL players, so to infer that it was gender biased, in this particular instance, may be a stretch.
I think what you have said is correct. Women are allowed to get away with hitting men but once a man hit a women its so bad. Who knows what she did to tempt him to hit her.
DeleteAlso i feel the NFL was wrong for covering all the details up and it has but them in a tough situation with the media and the views of people. If TMZ didn't come out with the video everything would have been ok.
I feel that the severity of the situation potentially would've been different if Ray Rice's spouse had hit him instead, but the overall implications would've remained the same. While there are a smaller number of domestic violence cases involving women as the assaulter, There has also been an increase in prosecuting those individuals as well. I do not think there is an overall "notion" that it is OK for women to hit men, and that in recent years, domestic violence as a whole has been viewed in a greater negative context.
DeleteI think that in this case, Ray Rice deserved the consequences he now has to face because of his cruel and completely unnecessary actions. I think that the majority of the time, public figures,celebrities, and athletes often get away with being a part of illegal or unjust actions without such punishments. Everyone deserves the consequences of their actions though, whether one is famous or not. I think the NFL has to hold strong to their punishments for all players because so many average people tend to look up to professional athletes and often mimic their actions. I just hope that no similar actions take place in the future because we need to get away from such domestic violence cases
ReplyDelete- Chelsea Pudimott
I don't believe that fame is the only factor that allows for public figures, celebrities, and athletes to get away with illegal activities. I believe that it has more to do with "affluenza" which indicates that conflict theory (subcultural theory of deviance) has an impact on the responses to crimes and social deviance. People with money (and influence) will always be able to bend the laws to permit illegal behaviors. If an average man was video taped beating his fiancee, he would not just have the equivalent of a 2 day suspension. With conflict theory, we need to hope that we - the minority - can eventually topple this practice and ensure equality.
DeleteSong Yun
I am very surprised that the NFL or the Baltimore Ravens didn't take this kind of action against Ray Rice even before the video had been released. Granted, the NFL did suspend Rice for 2 games when he was charged for domestic violence earlier in the summer at the time of the incident, but why ban him now just because video evidence of his actions just surfaces? Similar incidents have occurred recently where NFL players are charged with crimes, such as marijuana possession, and are able to avoid any jail time or serious judicial punishment because they are able to post bail. They are employees of the NFL, a very lucrative career, so these bails are easily surmountable. The NFL then should take responsibility of its employees and follow up with a suitable punishment immediately. They tend to give out lesser punishments such as 2 or 4 day suspensions, which doesn't seemingly have a great enough impact on these now former criminals' actions to deter them from becoming repeat offenders. Unfortunately, more often than not these players nevertheless become repeat offenders. I believe it is time for the NFL to reassess the manner in which they treat those players that have been officially charged and convicted of crimes in a court of law and not wait for further physical evidence that surfaces after the fact.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't surprise me. The NFL didn't hire these people because of their integrity or moral values. They hired them to play football. As long as the players can do their job well and cooperate with the team, there is no reason for any team to take action. The only reason the NFL fired Ray Rice was because mass media pressured them to do so, and the NFL doesn't want to seem apathetic towards domestic abuse; if the video didn't become viral, Rice would still be playing.
Delete-Kevin Fan
I don't know why people where shocked that the NFL took punitive action only when one of its employees was catapulted in the spotlight due to his abhorrent actions. Not only was Rice in the spotlight but the NFL brand was inevitably in the spotlight as well. Kevin mentioned how the NFL first and foremost is a business intent on making a profit. Image is everything. If the NFL brand is tarnished, then every sponsor associated with that brand is negatively affected. Rice as a liability must be handled accordingly not to mar the NFL brand.
DeleteJames Boone November 11, 2014 at 11:35 AM
DeleteI watched the video for the first time yesterday, thinking that this had happened recently, and was shocked to find out that it happened way back in February. I was even more astonished to find out back when it happened, she was Rice's fiance and is now his wife! That just blows my mind. To think that the NFL didn't take a stance against Rice's actions when they first found out about it, without the video, is beyond me. If there is proof of abuse, which there was on his now wife's body, because there was visible proof, then something should have been done about it a long time ago and he should have been suspended back in February. I don't understand why they're banning him just now, as soon as the video was released. He was charged earlier in the summer but why did it have to come down to a video, until something major was done. Even in that video, it talked of a current Dallas Cowboys player killing his teammate under the influence. Is he permanently in jail for that? I don't care if you're in a multi-million dollar career; a crime is a crime and no matter who you are, you should be charged just as severely as an average joe off the street. I hope the NFL reconsiders how they handle their players who get charged with certain crimes, because if they wait, as with this whole thing, it will only get worse, which puts a bad name to certain teams and the NFL as a whole.
ReplyDeleteRay came out and apologized, he admitted striking her and he was handed a punishment of a 2 week suspension. So now the NFL sees this video and now they are making him and his fiancé relive this whole situation over again. They should have suspended him for the entire season, and now sources are saying Roger Goodell saw the video months ago and never took action, so now the extra punishments such as being released from the Ravens and losing multiple endorsements could've all been prevented months ago if Roger Goodell made the right decision.
ReplyDelete-Christian Zawadzki Rm:1213 ASY
I believe that Ray Rice will lose a lot of fans. There are men and women in this country that have dealt with domestic abuse in some type of way. For his fiancé to let everyone know that it was "her fault," I believe that most people will not believe her. When people are in abusive relationships, they can be in manipulative situations or they just simply do not want the situation to turn into something bigger than what it is when it is already big. I also believe that Rice will be playing again, at some point. That will affect the whole team and the NFL. I don't think that he should come back. He committed a crime, just as much as a DUI and murder. While reading the article, I found it funny how it ended with some of his accomplishments as a NFL player. I don't think people care about that, at least I don't.
ReplyDelete-Ruby22
Ray Rice broke a huge social norm by beating his fiance and that will now have an enormous affect on both his career and life. The punishment was not as severe before, but now that the video of the incident has surfaced he will lose a lot of fans and potentially his career. I believe it is a little unfair that his punishment is being changed after he has already been punished for the incident, but i suppose there was no way for people to know how severe the incident was before the video came out.
ReplyDeleteRay Rice is absolutely wrong about how he handled his business. Domestic violence is one of the underlying issues that our country is facing because obviously its really hard to expose if its happening or not. Roger Goddell and the Ravens organization both made the right decision with their punishments and I stand by them. I have a few questions that go against what the norm. 1. If Rice and his fiancee are ok with what happened and they plan to "work" on the issue together, then why should he be prevented from his profession, the way he supports his family? 2. If your an NFL owner where results are measured with on the field actions, would you sign Ray Rice? 3. Would you sign Ray Rice if he was still playing and you are a fantasy football team owner? 4. Does Ray Rice deserve a second chance and have his suspension lifted?
ReplyDeleteJust some food for thought..
I did not expect Ray Rice do something like this. Men should never hit a woman especially their own fiancé. This is going affect his football career and life, his fans will turn against him. I'm wondering why the NFL didn't take action in February when this happened instead of finding out now. Even though he apologized, it's not going to change anything because everybody in the NFL and the Ravens fans are not going forget this situation.
ReplyDeleteAmeerat olatunde
I am from Baltimore and a huge Raven's fan but that absolutely does not excuse Ray Rice's actions. I do not believe at any point is it ok to hit a woman. I think his punishment was well deserved even if he did not get that punishment at first. Ray Rice was man enough to knock his finance cold then he should be man enough to take any consequence that comes with it. Being in the NFL is a privilege and there are high standards that come with that job. Ray Rice is a talented player but at no means does that give him the right to hit women.
ReplyDelete-De'Ja Geter-Jackson
(Bubbles)
Ray made a terrible decision. He hit a woman. That is not socially acceptable in today's society. This whole story has overwhelmed our entertainment industry and shows how much the NFL and and popular culture dominate the lives of a large portion of our country's citizens. Sociology is the study of human behavior and this situation shows how the behavior of one individual influenced the behavior of millions.
ReplyDelete-Wyatt Wood
(pussycat)
Ryan Muscatella
ReplyDeleteThe fact that it took this long for Ray Rice to be indefinitely suspended from the NFL is actually quite entertaining. He knew, the league knew, everyone who followed his story knew that he beat his fiancé, but the league, and most importantly the commissioner did not want the Ravens or the NFL to suffer by losing such a great player. Therefore, they only suspended him for two games even though players caught smoking marijuana were suspended for four games and possibly more. What does this prove? You can beat up your family but you better not smoke a plant. This entire message the NFL is now coming across is a little too late and it sickens me to think that he almost was going to get off easy. People in today's society interact differently, however, the fact that Ray Rice did this and the video was only released recently shows how someone must have paid a ton of money to receive that video. This helps show how our era is willing to pay for something in order to destroy someone else's career. Overall, what Ray Rice did was wrong, everyone knows that, but it should not have taken this long for people to realize that.
Christina Asare
ReplyDeleteBetter late than never. Even though it took them some time it is good that the NFL has finally come to their senses and given him a fitting punishment. Their actions finally show that they don't condone domestic violence but it is sad that it took a video for them to take action, even though they already knew what took place.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSaron Bizuayehu
ReplyDeleteSection: 0801
It is quite enthralling to think about how many sports players, actors, and other famous people apologize after being caught whether it is domestic abuse or adultery. It maybe that it is more socially acceptable to apologize to everyone even when one does not actually mean it. Apparently, Ray Rice apologized for the "situation," he was in rather than apologizing for his actions. He violated a type of norm, a “more." In doing so, he was punished by the NFL. Any team that would sign Ray Rice would probably suffer financially since society believes rightly that it is unacceptable to put a man who committed domestic violence on a team. Furthermore, some argue that his wife shouldn't have hit him first. If one looks at the video closely, they can see that she did not hit him severely and she seemed to hit him once. After her first hit, she started to approach him, and she had her hands down. Nonetheless, when her fiancé saw her approaching him, he strikes her severely and continuously into unconsciousness. This is not acceptable in any stance. In addition, the head coach John Harbaugh was the only person who spoke to the press about the occurrence and this doesn’t make sense because the team is an organization and there are other people above him like the president of team who should have also been involved in attaining the video earlier. In Rice’s following appearances in which he spoke about the video, he apologized for his actions but words are not actions. No one knows what happens behind closed doors, he may or may not have brought his actions in the video to his home. The unpredictability of that is truly gruesome to think about.
I think it's interesting to see how our society tends to view things in comparison to each other constantly. While Ray Rice's actions had no bearing on his skill and ability to play football, it affected his career and his professional life. While I do completely stand by the NFL's decision to remove him from the team, I think it is interesting and remarkable that people still emphasize ethics before anything else. It shows that the Ravens not only want a person who is skilled at football but also a person with a good overall character and wouldn't make such bad decisions. I do think he deserved his punishment and while his wife may have forgiven him, he still in a way disrespected all women and condoning that wouldn't be ethical for the NFL or the Ravens. I'm also surprised that his wife didn't speak more against his actions, because while it is a sensitive time for her family and there is a lot of bad press against him, I personally thought as a victim she would be a positive female voice who could be a role model for women who have been abused.
ReplyDelete-Lakshmi Subramanian
The way the NFL handled the situation is at least questionable. First, they only suspended Rice for two games after it was already obvious what he did. (I.e. the video of him carrying his wife out of the elevator).
ReplyDeleteAlso, there is a reasonable reason to think the NFL saw the actual video of Rice punching his wife before.
Knowing this, it is unbelievable that the NFL let Ray Rice have is own press conference. Even though it took the NFL a lot of time to make a decision, the punishment fits the crime Rice committed. In my opinion a celebrity or sportsman, like Ray Rice, has to be a positive role model for society.
If celebrities or sportsman are not a role model for society, society has to see the role models get punished, so they understand committing crime is not normal because a celebrity committed it.
Bryce Young
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting to see that only after the video of Ray Rice hitting his wife was released, that the NFL and the Raven's organization took action to discipline him. Both the NFL and Raven's organization knew exactly what the tap held on it without even having to see the video. Why did it take almost seven months to come to a decision to not only terminate his job within the Baltimore organization, but suspend him indefinitely from the NFL?
Before a couple weeks ago, Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice was to serve a 2-game suspension for domestic abuse, for hitting his wife. However it took a video being released several months after the incident occurred to open the NFL and Ravens organization's eyes and give Ray Rice proper punishment by terminating his contract. It simply appalls me that it took a video to change this decision and that the NFL didn't make the call immediately at the thought of a player hitting his wife. The evidence was there, and no real/proper action was taken until the video was released not long ago. What really sets me off is when Ravens head coach John Harbaugh says that the video "changed things." This angers me because proper punishment should have been given to Rice after the original story was released and the evidence was there, not after the actual video of the instance was revealed. When you have players getting suspended a mere 2 games for domestic abuse and other players missing an entire season for smoking marijuana, the priorities of Roger Goodell and the NFL come into question. When it comes down to it, the story and evidence of Rice performing domestic abuse should have been enough to properly punish him through long-term suspension or contract termination.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the previous post. It is upsetting that it takes actually seeing a man knock out his wife against an elevator wall to do the right thing. Prior to this video being released, we saw the video of him dragging his unconscious fiance out of the elevator. What did the NFL think happened in the elevator? It could not have been anything less than exactly what is was, so why did they wait so long to make the right call and suspend Rice indefinitely. What other possible action could have happened in the elevator to leave her in such a state that she had to be dragged out? I think the way this was handled reaffirms the fact that the priorities of the NFL are absolutely in the wrong place and someone should pay for the egregious mistake, namely NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell.
ReplyDeleteThis situation doesn't just apply to the NFL. Celebrities have been able to get out of punishments and slide by laws as much as they have wanted to. Think about it, a new celebrity has a DUI almost every week and instead of being put in jail when they could have killed people with their actions (just like Ray Rice), they seem to get away with a "warning" every time. This is a bigger problem than just the NFL. Yes Rice beat his fiancé and that is domestic violence but as the public I think we need to focus more on the bigger picture that celebrities think they are invincible because they are often not punished enough or simply don't care about repercussions of their actions.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to the idea that maybe the situation would have been handled differently if Ray Rice's fiancé was abusive to him, I thought I would share this article.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/hope-solo-getting-pass-domestic-violence/nhRWS/
I think it is important to recognize that domestic violence is not just a woman's issue, and that it is equally horrifying regardless of what gender commits the abuse.
Although Ray Rice committed an almost unforgivable and disgusting act, I think that he and his wife should be able to settle this incident in private, through the legal system. I believe that any man who domestically abuses a female should have to face serious consequences legally; however, I'm not sure if the NFL and the Baltimore Ravens need to be so involved in private affairs. The NFL took a horrible approach when initially suspending Rice for 2 games. But, there is no "correct punishment". To suspend a man indefinitely from his profession is a hefty punishment, and I think the NFL and the Ravens should have suspended him at least for this whole season and then made a better informed decision in 2015.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I do completely agree that domestic violence is an ungrateful act and that Ray Rice should be punished regardless if he is a professional athlete or not, I believe that the NFL is doing a terrible job trying to resolve this issue. They knew from before the full tape came out that it was a domestic violence charge, so why when the full video came out that they completely change his sentence of being suspended indefinitely. I think that this has to deal more with celebrities and professional athletes thinking that they get do what ever they want and get away with it. The NFL and all other leagues and police should consider celebrities and athletes they same as everyone else in this world because they are.
ReplyDeleteKiana Smith
ReplyDeleteFootage of Ray Rice physically hiting his wife resulted in Rice losing his position in the NFL from the Baltimore Ravens. I agree and disagree with the consequences faced by the altercation on Rice's behalf. The NFL should allow for the altercation to be handled in private matters by the law, but take into consideration, would the Baltimore Ravens want a man known for domestic violence to represent the team? Celebrities are seen to be able to abide by different laws and not fully face consequences of their actions.
I'll start off by saying that Domestic Violence is wrong. I firmly believe nobody in a relationship should physically harm one another. However, the public cannot judge a man on his actions against his fiance by just watching one video. Relationships are deep and complex. No one knows the full story behind the two and how their relationship was up until that point. For me to judge Ray Rice would be a shame because I don't know how it feels to be a pro football player with all that publicity. Therefore, I cannot say his fiance did or did not deserve the beating.
ReplyDeleteIt is very interesting to me hearing of the different considerations of punishment that should be implemented on Ray Rice after this video. From a three year consequence, to a 6 game probation, Ray Rice's punishment has been under thought. Despite Ray Rice's fame and major contributions to the NFL, society needs to maintain the overall concept that Ray Rice, is too, a human being. Clearly Ray Rice and his partner have had issues to lead up to such a terrible recording. There is so much more to domestic violence than the violence itself. In a situation as unfortunate as this one, the image society has on Ray Rice will forever be skewed.
ReplyDeleteDomestic violence towards anyone is shameful and should not be accepted at all in society. But when anyone gets caught with domestic violence the should be punished the same as everyone else. But also the mater should be handled privately and not necessarily affect their personal jobs, because we will never truley understand the underlining facts of why this incidence occurred.
ReplyDeleteI think that the idea of everyone being held accountable in the same way for their actions is a nice one, but unrealistic. I believe that when someone becomes a public figure, they are accepting that they are held at a higher standard for their actions. If celebrities expect the public to support and applaud them for every good thing they do, they better expect that the public will shame them and disapprove of them if they do something very bad. What Ray Rice did was very bad and he deserves to lose his job. I think that allowing Ray Rice to continue on the team sends a really bad message to America. It sends the message "It's okay to participate in domestic abuse, because everyone will eventually forget because you're so good at other things". I think that fans of Ray Rice will forgive him once he does another sports accomplishment
DeleteI agree I feel that there were many ways to avoid this. I feel that as a man you no what is right and you have no reason to lay hands on a women
DeleteI believe that Ray Rice was not right or justified in hitting his fiancee. While I believe that domestic violence is wrong, the media and the public have condemned Ray Rice completely. As he is a role model to many people and a person of great fame, it is understandable that he should be aware of his actions in public and out of it. However, many are judging him without a complete understanding of his situation and the depth of his relationship with his fiancee. There may be hidden sides to this incident that we do not know. So, I think that it is unfair to judge him so critically, especially since he is human. Nobody is perfect, and everybody makes mistakes.
ReplyDelete-Simon Chang
Ray Rice admitted to hitting his finance when the issue was first presented to the NFl. I feel as though a video should not have changed the punishment. The NFL was definitely aware of what happened but now that the public saw the video, they were forced to inflict a more harsh punishment. The Ravens dropping Rice, in my opinion, was not the right thing to do. They were made aware of what happened in the first place, they shouldn't change their punishments due to public opinion.
ReplyDelete-Keegan O'Connor
I think it's ridiculous that Rice wasn't banned until the video actually came out. He was in a bit of trouble with the NFL when he was charged for domestic violence, but until the release of the video of him hitting his former fiancee in the elevator he wasn't banned from the game. I think that the NFL can get away with a lot of these small crimes because football is such an American sport and although it isn't a necessary job, being a good football player in the NFL is not a job that is so easily replaceable or attainable. I think the NFL isn't too worried about the crimes until it looks bad on their part as a com pay. Until the video was released the NFL wasn't under too much spotlight for continuing to play Rice, but one society saw what Rice had done on video, then it looked bad on the NFL's part to continue to play him.
ReplyDeleteThere are things I understand and don't understand about this situation. First of all, I believe that everyone, athlete or not, should suffer from the same punishment for all crimes. I understand why the Ravens released Ray Rice. The Ravens didn't want to give the impression that they support domestic violence, since so many people were criticizing Rice at the time. This was a move to save their reputation and keep their business safe. I don't understand how seeing the video can make things "a little bit different." The act is still the same. This makes me wonder if the John Harbaugh and Ravens even care that Rice attacked his fiance, or if they were just afraid of the public disapproval.
ReplyDelete-Brandon Chambers
The interesting aspect of the story is not what lead the man to hit his fiancé, but rather how most people treated it like no big deal. Yes, there were consequences to the actions of the player, but they were all very minor; almost as if no one cared, but rather felt obligated to do something. This shows that people do not understand how serious this problem (or isolated event) is, and also think it’s a momentary slip up mistake. This changed, however, when people saw what actually happened. Then, once the vicious hit was seen, people agreed that it was much worse and a lot less inexcusable. The moral of this: if we want people to act, we must make sure they understand the situation.
ReplyDelete-Matthew Glazer
This video shocked me when I first came across it. Just thinking about the size difference between the two and how strong of a hit Rice must have thrown disturbs me. A man should never hit a woman. Moreover, Ray Rice went against societal norms when he hit his fiancé. By doing so, he had to face the ramifications of the NFL which resulted in him losing his NFL position as well as the criticism from all of his fans and viewers across the nation. After being "suspended indefinitely from the NFL," Rice appealed and won his case in court and has since been reinstated in the NFL. This disturbs me the most because it sends the wrong message to people out there. I believe that his punishment was taken away, leaving him be as if there was never any punishment to begin with. That is not okay, especially when trying to reinforce societal norms.
ReplyDelete- Louis Pardo
I think that this article shows the importance of media and how media can really affect the public opinion. It seemed that either none of the people on the NFL saw the video or chose to ignore it until TMZ broadcasted the video for everyone to see. This makes it seem that the actions itself were not as severe or socially condemned until it become known to more people. This also made it seem that only after more people responded to it and criticized the actions that the NFL finally made their statements and final decisions.
ReplyDeleteI think the article highlights how professional athletes can be treated as almost above the law because of their physical and athletic prowess and how it takes something truly appalling, such as a large muscular man disrupting a societal norm (you shouldn't hit a woman) by striking his wife, to incite any sort of social change. I think this will highlight a new era of athletes being watched even more diligently and more will be punished for their outlandish behavior. This can be seen in the case with Adrian Peterson and how he was brought up on charges of child abuse for striking his son.
ReplyDeleteI think that the reason the NFL reacted the way that they did is because of all the negative attention they received from the media and fans. If this video would not have gotten all the negative feedback that it did/no one would have seen it, then i'm sure his punishment would have been less severe. This goes to show how much power the media can have. A man let alone a big, strong football player should not be hitting a woman let alone his fiancee. I think the punishment was suiting. Hopefully this changes the mindset the athletes/famous people are above the law. Hopefully they become more conscious of their actions
ReplyDelete-Tita
First of all, this is battery. A person making unwanted contact with someone would be defined as battery. The fact that these two people were in a relationship makes it domestic violence and abuse. Now if we add in the fact that a “5-foot, 8-inch, 220 pound athlete’ punched a woman, knocking her unconscious, that just makes it outrageous. What makes it even more outrageous is the fact the NFL team saw it as a minor offense. Ray Rice’s punishment was even less than those who abused drugs instead of people. Hands down if someone is beating up someone else who is powerless against them, it should be considered a serious offense and the person should receive the appropriate consequences. It is not okay for the team to say ‘It’s ok he knocked his fiancé unconscious, but I think he is still a respectable man’. This is what is perpetuating the glory and idea that celebrities and athletes are above the law. It took two videos for the team to drop him, whereas they should have taken the action when they saw that he was dragging her out of the elevator unconscious.
ReplyDeleteThe NFL, in my opinion, must take a defiant stand against domestic violence after this Ray Rice incident. It is the NFL’s greatest responsibility to make sure that all fans understand that just a celebrity does something it does not mean that that something is okay to do. This issue extends far beyond the gridiron, the locker-room, individual teams, and the NFL. This is a cultural issue that must be addressed from the top down and must be acted against in a way that will clearly demonstrate the illegality of domestic violence. This is called social responsibility, and if the authorities crack down on it, according to sociological happening, the masses will follow and accept the truth of domestic violence as unacceptable.
ReplyDelete--
Max Samuels
I think this is a perfect example to demonstrate how Freud's model of the psyche comes into play in Sociology. Although internally the id, ego, and superego are not entirely consciously controlled, the superego is something that we are aware of regardless of if we are familiar with his model. Ray Rice ignored the ego internally and his desire to right what he felt was wrong with physical violence filled the id with what it is- a way to describe certain actions, thoughts, or feelings with instinct. Apparently now he has admitted fault and things have changed since the release of this video meaning that the morals he has in the superego were let out and punishment is a little different than society, as determined by norms, would think they would be.
ReplyDeleteKenny P
It's very disappointing how the NFL handled the Ray Rice case. In my opinion, the NFL didn't have a set idea of what punishment was deemed proper for Ray Rice who was charged for domestic violence. Having Ray Rice fired to being only suspended for 2 games. For basic social norms, men do not physically abuse women. It is wrong to even consider no matter how angry that individual is feeling. The comments from other NFL players responded with disappointment as well and I question if the NFL is indirectly helping Ray Rice to still be part of the league for money or other reasons. This proves that individuals who have money and power are able to manipulate social norms to make it seem that punishments from committing social crimes can be avoided easily.
ReplyDeleteI think that Ray Rice deserved the punishment he received. Celebrities, professional athletes, and public figures often get lesser sentences when they commit illegal or unlawful actions. Regardless of a man hitting a women, domestic violence and intimate partner violence is a terrible act. No one has the right to abuse another human. By Ray Rice hitting his fiancé in the face and knocking her unconscious, he should receive a severe punishment due to breaking the mores of society. It is ridiculous that it took the NFL this long to punish players who commit domestic violence or child abuse and only after the video was released to the public. They need to be an example to society and condone such behavior.
ReplyDelete-Foofie
It was a horrible thing that Ray Rice did and he deserved his punishment but I think that it is interesting that although the fiance was obviously fighting and egging him on she is seen as the victim and is not punished as well. I realize that there is a huge size difference between them and the fact that Ray Rice dragged her from the building unconscious makes his situation much worse than hers but I feel like this is another way of saying that woman are weak and therefore need to be treated differently then men. If this was two men fighting each other then they would both be seen as at fault for what happened instead of just the one person.
ReplyDeleteOf course, like everyone has said, this is a terrible thing that Ray Rice has done. He definitely deserved to be suspended from the league and whatever the "diversional programs" that the law is making him do, I hope they really fit the crime, but this is not what I am writing about. I find it very strange that although the initial police report that was filed about this case blatantly saying that Rice and punched her in the face, it was only until the video came out that this case made the national headlines. Following the leak of this video, this case not only made the national headlines, but it prompted a very large anti-domestic violence movement. Why it was only until after the video leaked that this case blew up, I think, is a very sociological question. Is it because the people didn't trust the police report? Is it because the police report was not enough to convince people? Or it because the video itself evokes a lot very strong, bad emotions that only after these emotions are felt, will people react. I'm sure it is a combination of all three but mostly the emotion part. People are very influenced by emotion and a lot of times it is their leverage to act. These people acted in the right way of course, but I just think its strange that a video of the act had to come out before people really reacted.
ReplyDeleteWhether or not this is in his normal character, what Ray Rice did was horrifically wrong. It went against our social norms of not abusing the people you love. Abuse like this happens every day all over the world, so it's understandable that it didn't make the headlines until after the video was posted; people didn't realize just how bad it was until they could see the intensity of it. Abuse, let alone knocking someone unconscious, is not okay. This brought to light a bigger issue than Rice's personal situation, which is domestic abuse in America. Violence, whether a man hitting his woman or a woman hitting her man, is not okay and should not be taken lightly. This situation caused an anti-domestic violence movement, and I hope this movement continues to move forward so that we can diminish domestic violence as much as possible.
ReplyDeleteIt’s funny how NFL essentially supported and defended Ray Rice, but after the video of him committing violence against his fiancé leaked, they immediately turned their back on him. The fact that Ray Rice physically abuses his fiancé does not just happen once. Earlier, there have been evidence of this incident, yet the press, and especially his colleagues, quickly forgive him by saying “he’s not that type of guy” or that he’s trying to amend for his mistakes. What Ray Rice has done is wrong in all ways, but how NFL reacts to his actions should also be condemned.
ReplyDeleteI think it is appalling that the Ravens team's first reaction to hearing that Ray Rice was domestically abusive towards his partner was to be fully supportive of him. Hearing high up people regard him with respect and be proud of him is not only sad, but a horrible representation to all of America of the NFL. I understand that now they have parted ways with Rice, but that was only after video evidence of the assault came out. They should have parted ways with him immediately after they found out about the assault. The team and NFL are not only condemning illegal actions, but it is a horrible portrayal towards all women.
ReplyDeleteThis situation has been something to follow over the past couple of months. While I one hundred percent do not agree with Rice’s horrific actions and think he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law for that, I think the way the situation has played out and been handled the past couple of months is wrong. The matter was being investigated and handled by the Atlantic County Prosecutors Office. I understand that this is considered to be high profile and something that would attract media attention however I don’t think it was the Raven’s responsibility to “punish” him before the NFL was. Since this is how it played out, I think it is wrong that he was punished by the Ravens and then the NFL attempted to do the same. Domestic violence and assault is a serious matter and the offender, female or male, should be held fully accountable by the law, which is something the ACPO did do. Yes the NFL tries to uphold moral standards and values and enforce these, but the Ravens should have not taken matters into their own hands. It should have been the NFL’s decision as the actor for the entire league. I think that people thought it was necessary for the Ravens to take action because it appeared that no one was, and this was done in order to save their appearance, but action was being taken by ACPO and he was being held accountable at the justice level. That should have been addressed more because it could have separated the Ravens from an scrutiny as it is not their responsibility to punish but rather it is first and foremost the court systems, then the NFL’s in order to uphold their standards.
ReplyDelete-Cierra Horsting
I find it shocking that the head coach Harbaugh completely supported Ray Rice after the domestic dispute with his fiancé. It is unacceptable for a male to step out of his boundaries and outside of the social norms of male behavior towards females. While some more disappointed with his actions than others, it is important to note how some believe that his punishment was not fitting the crime. I personally believe that domestic violence is a serious issue, and when I saw the video myself, I was completely shocked and sick to my stomach. The idea of a man knocking his fiancé unconscious with one blow is unbelievable.
ReplyDelete“The Ray Rice domestic violence case against his wife earlier this year shook the country and put a giant spotlight on the National Football League. Commissioner Roger Goodell was more specifically the target as his lack of proper action was heavily scrutinized while the general public called for stricter action. Rice did admit to his faults in a professional and mature manner, however. But, there have been other offenses against the football player including an aggravated assault charge in late March. So at what point should the league take action and start keeping an eye on repeat offenders of the law? And if done so could an event such as this been prevented by taking earlier precaution?”
ReplyDelete-Cameron J. Goins/ 12/10/14
8) Domestic violence occurs all the time, and when a major celebrity or face in society commits violence, it is projected for all the world to see. If this incident had not been video taped and released to the public, it is very likely that Ray Rice would never have been caught or reprimanded, possibly may have never apologized to his wife, and the violence could still be occurring. I believe this is an example of how people react to being in the lime light and under pressure of society- because it is against societal morals to hit a woman, Ray Rice was/ is looked down upon greatly, and felt the pressure to correct that and gain back some respect.
ReplyDelete-Sarah Wigmore
I found it very disturbing as part of this society that it took the video surfacing for people to make a big deal out of this particular situation. Everyone already had access to being able to see him drag his fiance (who was clearly unconscious) out of the elevator. It was public that he beat her and left her unconscious but I'm not sure why it took the actual video of him doing it for him to be actually suspended, when clearly the facts of the case were there all along?
ReplyDelete-Moose
I was really shocked at how Raven just prohibited him for 2 games and there was not organizations suing him. As a celebrity in America, he has set a really bad example for the whole country. The other part I don’t get is that his wife (fiancée at that time) would testify for him even though he hurt her with violence. What made me worried is that those athletes, physically strong and though, could do anything to their family (including Simpson, who killed his wife but somehow managed to get out from the justice system), and somehow not got punished and could go on what they’ve done. It is just not fair, and certainly a bad example for the society.
ReplyDeleteLi
After reading this article about what happened with Ray Rice from a couple months ago, I find it disturbing about the tone of the article presented. It did not seem to comment on Rice's actions at all, only present quotes of others. The beginning of the article brings quotes from those who did not bash him strongly such as his coach and the NFL, while the end of the article brings quotes/tweets from other players in the league expressing utter disgust in the video and actions of the NFL brought on Rice. I was most shocked by his wife's statement about it being her fault, and the fact that she still married him after this happened. There is obviously something more to this situation than just what the public knows between the two of them that seems to be extremely discomforting.
ReplyDeleteThis event is only one of the most recent examples of NFL players that have abused their position. In the U.S. we place athletes on a pedestal and they then believe they can get away with whatever they want. By not following through with Rices punishment we have only validated their wrong doing. To stop these crimes committed we must prosecute athletes like the rest of the population.
ReplyDeleteConor wetzel
Hi Connor,
DeleteInteresting post! I couldn't help but relate your post to our lecture on inequality in the United States. Athletes fall under the category of positions that are not essential but the role is difficult to replace. I think that part of the reason athletes are placed on a high pedestal is because their position is difficult to replace. Therefore, this contributes to inequality because others in different positions may not be placed on the same pedestal if they were in the same situation. What are your thoughts?
Oyin Adedipe, 0601
I think this video and article really makes it clear that Ray Rice’s case was mishandled, and not fairly done. More than being upset with the NFL claiming that they hadn’t seen the second video, and only suspending him for two games at first, I’m more worried with how the legal side of this was handled. Even though he is a famous athlete- the rule of law should definitely still apply to him, and the prosecutor allowing him to go through with a pretrial diversionary program, instead of facing more severe charges. A different (non-athlete) man would have been charged more harshly, and faced more legal consequences since this is a serious case of domestic abuse. The sheer volume of negative reactions from the public and other celebrities should point out that this is a serious and severe case of domestic abuse- and should therefore its case should be treated like one. I know that in the past, many celebrities have gotten off easy, avoiding jail time for other crimes (usually drug, alcohol related) but abuse is something that I think should be regarded on a whole new level. Hopefully, as the NFL begins changing its policies, and they realize that the public will be watching them closely from now on- the legal system will also stop giving preferential treatment for crimes like domestic abuse.
ReplyDeleteThis article shows how the NFL did not initially take the domestic violence case as seriously at first. They wanted to give Ray Rice the benefit of the doubt and chose not to penalize him as much because they thought their uncertainty justified their lack of action. However, once the final video was released it shocked the world including the NFL and Ravens. After the release of the second video, there was no doubt that Ray Rice responsible for punching his wife unconscious. The NLF and Ravens had no choice but to fire Ray Rice immediately; not because it was the right thing to do but because it was socially expected of them. If they had really cared about the well being of Janay Palmer they would have taken action sooner when they had the chance.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the NFL needs to have stricter regulations on the actions of its athletes. Although, stories such as Ray Rice's are publicized because he is a celebrity does not discount the domestic violence. These NFL athletes are models of many young children. I do not think that professional athletes should be able to act as they please just because they are making millions of dollars.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised that when the NFL first found out about the situation through the first video, they did no further investigation of what happened. I believe that Ray Rice did deserve the punishment he received because he should have known that a man of his size and stature could certainly do damage to a smaller person. However, I don't think that he is solely to blame in this situation. His then fiancé did hit him as well too. Both parties are at fault in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteAt the time of this comment I believe it's worth noting that Ray Rice's appeal to be allowed to play in the NFL has been granted. While his actions were morally wrong and terrible I do not agree that his punishment was severe enough. At the end of the day he will likely still be able to play football and suffer no criminal consequences for what I deem to be a criminal act.
ReplyDelete- Malcolm Lawanson
What Ray Rice did was wrong and it is not fair for him to not get penalized. The NFL should have strictly punished him for what he did because that was domestic abuse. Just because he is a well known athlete he can get special treatment and can get away with what he did. It is an abuse of power because he is someone who makes millions of dollars playing football and people need him to always be there. It is just sad that the woman will probably not get any justice.
ReplyDeleteDomestic abuse is one of the biggest gender issues facing our society today. It seems like every male argues against domestic violence but it is still such a prevalent issue. The fact that he originally only received a two game suspension for his actions tells us how lightly the NFL and other areas of society take the issue. It was only after the elevator video surfaced that Rice was banned indefinitely. The NFL knew the entire situation beforehand but it took the video to show them how much of an atrocity it was.
ReplyDelete-- Drew Brees